WELCOME TO THE NO BS ZONE OF TEDDY JACOBSON - IF YOU WANT THE TRUTH YOU HAVE COME TO THE RIGHT
PLACE.
COMPARE NOW
BEFORE YOU BUY. DO NOT BUY
ODD CALIBERS, YOU WILL FIND
LIMITED
SUPPLIERS FOR THIS
AMMUNITION.
****************************************
Please send
this link to interested people regarding mouse guns http://www.actionsbyt.blogspot.com/
Print
this blogger for future reference. Point of information, I DO NOT KNOW THE PEOPLE OR
THE OWNER OF
"KELTEC"...
ADDED
COMMENTS - 3-19-07 / Monday - very bottom
LEFT CLICK ON ALL PHOTOS TO
ENLARGE...
*************************************************************
........................................................................................
THIS COMMENTARY IS DEDICATED TO THE MANY "MORONS"
THAT HAVE NOT ONLY ATTACKED ME, BUT WHO KNOW
SO
VERY LITTLE ABOUT MOUSE GUNS
AND HAVE NO CLUE AT
ALL WHAT THEY
ARE TALKING ABOUT. MOST SHOULD NOT
EVEN BE ALLOWED TO OWN A HANDGUN. THIS IS THE VERY
BEGINNING OF MY REALISTIC
INFORMATION ABOUT SMALL
SEMI AUTO
PISTOLS, SOME ARE WORTHLESS. BE SURE TO
READ "GUN
TEST" EVALUATION OF THE NAA GUARDIAN. ALL
COMMENTS MADE BY ME ARE MY PERSONAL OPINION BASED
ON MY VAST EXPERIENCE. THE PEOPLE THAT
ATTACKED ME
ARE NOT EVEN
QUALIFIED TO DISCUSS HANDGUNS WITH ME.
THEY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THEY ARE EVEN TALKING
ABOUT.
THEY CONTINUALLY ATTACK ME WHEN I CAN NO LONGER
ANSWER THEM
BACK, SO MY ANSWERS WILL BE HERE.
I
HAVE BEEN SO IMPRESSED WITH
THE SECOND GENERATION
KELTEC
P-32 THAT I PURCHASED ONE. IT IS TO BE
USED
SELDOM "BUT CARRIED
OFTEN".
.........................................................................
UPDATED Sat. 3-17-07 very bottom - must see
***********************************************
DISCLAIMER:
ALL OPINIONS STATED ON ALL
MY
COMMENTARIES INCLUDING THIS ONE ARE
MY OWN OPINION AND OBSERVATIONS,
THIS
IS ALL BASED ON MY
EXPERIENCE AS A TRIGGER
SPECIALIST...
.........................................................................
PHOTOS ADDED / 3 - 15 -07 - MUST SEE BELOW / ADDED PICTURE AT LEFT TO SHOW INFERIOR "E" RING ON
HAMMER PIN AND DRAWBAR SPRING THAT BREAKS, YOU CAN SEE ALL THIS IF YOU REMOVE
THE LEFT GRIP PANEL OF YOUR "GUARDIAN"...
EVERYTHING STATED IS MY PERSONAL OPINION
ONLY.
I HAVE DECIDED TO WRITE MY OWN COMPARISON
CHART IN REFERENCE TO BUYING A KELTEC P32 PISTOL (2nd Generation) VS. A NORTH
AMERICAN ARMS GUARDIAN IN 32 ACP. BOTH PISTOLS
COMPARED ARE IN 32 acp CALIBER.
THESE OPINIONS AND COMMENTS ARE MY
PERSONAL VIEWPOINT ONLY BASED ON MY
EXPERIENCE. I DO BELIEVE THAT NAA MINI REVOLVERS ARE EXCELLENT BUT THIS CHART IS
COMPARING SMALL SEMI AUTO PISTOLS ONLY. THIS CHART WILL HAVE NO REFLECTION ON
NAA REVOLVERS. I CAN NOT RECOMMEND THEIR 17
CALIBER REVOLVERS. I RECOMMEND THEIR 22 LONG RIFLE AND 22 MAGNUM
REVOLVERS.
ANYTHING I RATE
USING A NUMBER IS THE FOLLOWING- ON A SCALE OF ONE TO TEN, ONE IS VERY POOR AND
TEN IS VERY GOOD. IF YOU CAN NOT HANDLE THE
TRUTH OF REALITY PLEASE LEAVE
NOW.
...................................................................................
Left click on this photo to
enlarge...
NAA
GUARDIAN BREECH FACE & EXTRACTOR
PROBLEM
...................................................................................................
Left click on this photo
to enlarge...
NAA GUARDIAN SHALLOW
RIFLING & VERY POOR
CROWN
...................................................................................................
Left click on this
photo to enlarge
NAA
GUARDIAN POOR FACTORY STIPPLING AFTER BEAD
BLASTING
.................................................................................................
TYPE OF ACTION
KELTEC - SEMI AUTO
GUARDIAN - SEMI AUTO
.................................................................................
FRAME MATERIAL - (Corrected
3-14-07)
KELTEC - FRAME
IS MADE OUT OF HARD ANODIZED 7071 ALUMINUM - PARTS ARE MOUNTED INSIDE
FRAME.
GUARDIAN - STAINLESS
STEEL
.................................................................................
TYPE OF ACTION
KELTEC - FIRES FROM A LOCKED
BREECH
GUARDIAN - DIRECT BLOW
BACK DESIGN
.................................................................................
SPRINGS
KELTEC
- CHROME SILICON
GUARDIAN -
MUSIC WIRE
.................................................................................
ESTIMATED TRIGGER PULL AS
NEW
KELTEC - MY SCALE READS 5 LBS. DOUBLE ACTION
ONLY
GUARDIAN - MY SCALE READS
BETWEEN 11 TO 12 LBS. DOUBLE ACTION ONLY
.................................................................................
SIGHTS
KELTEC
- POOR
GUARDIAN -
POOR
I THINK THAT LARRY SEECAMP IS CORRECT WITH HIS 32 ACP PISTOL AND HE
DOES NOT HAVE ANY SIGHTS.
................................................................................
FEED RAMP
KELTEC
- VERY GOOD FEED RAMP AND HAS PROPER THROATING.
GUARDIAN - POOR - note of caution that if you
take too much metal off this
feed ramp you will put a hole in it because the
recoil
spring tunnel is directly below the feed ramp.
................................................................................
EJECTOR
KELTEC
- VERY GOOD EJECTOR
GUARDIAN -
THERE IS NO EJECTOR
...............................................................................
EXTRACTOR
KELTEC
- VERY GOOD EXTRACTOR
GUARDIAN -
WORTHLESS EXTRACTOR - I RATE THIS # 1
..............................................................................
GUIDE ROD
KELTEC
- FULL LENGTH POLYMER GUIDE ROD
GUARDIAN - VERY SHORT GUIDE ROD ABOUT 1 INCH
LONG - METAL
..............................................................................
RECOIL SPRING
KELTEC
- DUAL SPRINGS - CHROME SILICON
GUARDIAN - DUAL SPRINGS - MUSIC
WIRE
.............................................................................
FIRING PIN
KELTEC
- WELL MADE FIRING PIN
GUARDIAN
- SOFT FIRING PIN - MUSHROOMS AT REAR
............................................................................
"E" RINGS
KELTEC
- NONE THAT I COULD SEE UPON INSPECTION
GUARDIAN - INFERIOR "E" RING ON HAMMER PIN -
SUGGESTED THE USE OF
SUPERIOR "SNAP RINGS" AND NAA REFUSED. I EVEN SENT THEM
WEBSITES OF WHERE
TO BUY THEM.
...........................................................................
BREECH FACE
KELTEC
- VERY WELL CUT
GUARDIAN - VERY
POOR DESIGN WITH RADIUS OPPOSITE SIDE OF
EXTRACTOR.
...........................................................................
FIELD STRIPPING
KELTEC
- HARD TO GET SLIDE STOP PIN OUT - VERY SECURE
GUARDIAN - HAS PUSH BUTTON LEVER THAT OFTEN
HAS BROKEN. EASY TO
FIELD STRIP.
...........................................................................
BARREL
KELTEC
- REMOVABLE BARREL
GUARDIAN -
BARREL AND FRAME ARE ONE PIECE CASTING
...........................................................................
RIFLING OF BARREL
KELTEC
- HAS DECENT RIFLING I RATE AT #7
GUARDIAN - POOR SHALLOW RIFLING. I RATE AT #
2
..........................................................................
CROWN AT MUZZLE
KELTEC
- DECENT CROWN FOR A GUN OF THIS TYPE
GUARDIAN - POOR AT BEST
.........................................................................
COMPANY RELIABILITY
KELTEC
- GOOD
GUARDIAN -
GOOD
.........................................................................
GRIPS (made correction
3-14-07)
KELTEC - GRIPS ARE POLYMER
GUARDIAN - CHEAP PLASTIC GRIPS, REFUSED TO
USE MICARTA AT MY
SUGGESTION. I EVEN SENT THEM WEBSITES OF WHERE TO
BUY
THIS VERY THIN MICARTA.
.........................................................................
MATERIAL OF SLIDE
KELTEC
- MOST ARE BLUED STEEL, OTHER FINISHES ARE AVAILABLE
GUARDIAN - STAINLESS
STEEL
.........................................................................
APPROX. WHOLESALE
PRICE
KELTEC - $200.00
GUARDIAN - $300.00
........................................................................
AVAILABILITY
KELTEC
- VERY POPULAR AND SELLING VERY FAST - VERY HARD TO FIND.
GUARDIAN - NOT IN CURRENT PRODUCTION - HAD TO
CHANGE CASTING
VENDORS - SHOULD BE BACK INTO PRODUCTION
SOON.
........................................................................
CAPACITY - I AM GOING BY
MEMORY
KELTEC - 7 PLUS 1
GUARDIAN - 6
PLUS 1
........................................................................
ACCURACY
KELTEC - I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH THIS AS I
CONSIDER All SMALL
SEMI AUTOS THIS SIZE TO BE USED FOR
UNDER 5 FEET MAX.
GUARDIAN - I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH THIS
FACTOR AS I CONSIDER
THIS PISTOL GOOD UP TO 5
FEET.
.......................................................................
TRIGGER BAR SPRING
KELTEC - I DO NOT KNOW
GUARDIAN - I
HAVE SEEN THE DRAWBAR PLUNGER SPRING BREAK
OFTEN
......................................................................
LIFE OF PISTOL
KELTEC - 6000
ROUNDS
GUARDIAN - I DO NOT KNOW
TOMCAT - 3000
ROUNDS
......................................................................
TO BE CONTINUED. Continued 3-14-07
I have always thought that NAA was a very reliable
factory and still do but they have not corrected obvious problems that they knew
about for years. I have had many discussions with them about their guardian but
they never listened to pure common sense, they always followed their marketing
man. Now they are paying the price as they are not only out of production but
their flaws are beyond my fixing them. Sure I can get a better trigger pull on
every Guardian I take in but there is no way I can prevent the Drawbar Spring
from breaking because they would not spend a couple of dollars per each unit and
buy superior chrome silicon springs. There are no after market parts for this
pistol and I remain at the mercy of a finished product.
These fools that
take these mouse guns to a range and expect good groups at 30 feet are out of
their mind and many people in america should not even own a gun, their
expectations of any mouse gun is insane because with barely two inches of
shallow rifling and a very poor crown there is no way you can get accuracy.
And to further complicate matters some of
these people shoot hundreds of cheap rounds per week in a gun that is not meant
for this type of torture.
ANY SEMI
AUTO PISTOL IS AT THE MERCY OF QUALITY AMMUNITION AND IF YOU LIMP WRIST THE GUN
IT WILL JAM.
I have never taken
in a KELTEC pistol to work on as I can not improve it enough to justify taking a
persons money, I am too honest for that.
I have taken in countless "GUARDIANS" of all
calibers and I am able to reduce an 11 lb. double action trigger down to about 8
lbs without having created misfires. I have owned more mouse guns in my
lifetime than most people but they are for a last ditch survival weapon, "IT IS WHAT IT IS"... These people that have bought mouse guns can not
except the fact that they are to be carried and seldom
fired.
Another parallel is a person that buys an aluminum frame
1911 pistol of commander size, this type of pistol is ideal to carry for its
light weight, but if you shoot it alot with high performance ammunition it will
fall apart. THE VERY BEST SMALL MINI HANDGUNS
ARE STILL THE GLOCKS. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT I AM SAYING - "TOUGH" - BECAUSE
ITS TRUE.
OF COURSE I WOULD LIKE
TO SEE NAA MAKE A SUPERIOR WEAPON, BUT IN MY MIND AND IN MY OPINION ITS
DOUBTFUL BECAUSE OF THE LEADERSHIP THAT ARE MAKING THESE DECISIONS WITH MARGIN
OF PROFIT AS A FIRST PRIORITY. THEY HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THESE FLAWS FOR YEARS. THE
OWNER OF NAA LIVES IN PA. AND THE FACTORY IS IN UTAH. HE RELIES ON PEOPLE THAT
JUST DO NOT GET IT IN MY OPINION. THIS DOES NOT
INCLUDE THE NAA REVOLVER DEPT.
PEOPLE THAT MAKE A DECENT LIVING IN A SMALL TOWN IN
UTAH MUST PROTECT THEIR SALARY AND I JUST FEEL VERY BAD FOR THE AVERAGE EMPLOYEE
THAT REALLY KNOWS BETTER BUT ITS NOT HIS OR HER FAULT THEY JUST TAKE ORDERS FROM
PEOPLE WITH THEIR OWN AGENDA. IN MY OPINION ITS JUST THAT
SIMPLE.
FOR EXAMPLE IF YOU HAVE A TEN DOLLAR AN HOUR EMPLOYEE THAT
IS TOLD TO STIPPLE A FRONT STRAP AND HAS NO REAL EXPERIENCE AND DOES THIS
STIPPLING AND SOME FLUNKIE SUPERVISER TELLS HIM TO CUT FILES LINES AROUND THE
STIPPLING WHICH ARE CROOKED AND THEN BEAD BLAST THE FRAME, NOT ONLY IS IT AN
INFERIOR JOB BUT THE BEAD BLASTING JUST RUINS THE VERY STIPPLING YOU WANTED FOR
A SECURE GRIP. I DO NOT BLAME THE INNOCENT BEGINNER HOURLY EMPLOYEE BECAUSE I
BLAME THE SUPERVISOR WHO IS JUST WORRYING ABOUT HIS SIZEABLE WEEKLY
CHECK.
I COULD GO ON AND ON AND ON BUT I
HAVE SAID ENOUGH. EVERYTHING I HAVE WRITTEN AND STATED IS MY OPINION ONLY BASED
ON MY VAST
EXPERIENCE.
...................................................
"SNAP
RINGS" (far superior than an "E"
ring)
The
TRUARC Company is home of Waldes TRUARC and Industrial Retaining Ring brands.
Our legacy dates back over 60 years as the originator of Retaining Ring Designs
and applications in the North America. Our expertise in Engineering combined
with our world class manufacturing facilities can provide solutions to your most
demanding retaining ring needs.
COST OF "E"
RINGS
....................................................................................
CHROME SILICON
SPRINGS
WHAT IS YOUR LIFE WORTH ??
Differences In Spring Rate Set Between Different Types
of Spring Materials
By Mike Watkins
The Gang here at Brownells were recently discussing spring set on
new magazines springs and 1911 Colt type pistols. I decided to do a comparison
test on AR-15 20 round magazines springs and 1911 recoil springs.
The
test was done to compare Chrome Silicon springs, Stainless Steel springs, and
Music Wire springs. This would be a Gunsmith test only, since we don’t have a
full laboratory with precision testing equipment. The test was to measure the
new length of each magazine spring, and then load up the mag with dummy rounds
to full capacity. The final step was to check the length of the springs after
three days and ten days to see how much shorter the springs were, or how much
set the springs took.
On the recoil springs for the 1911, I measured the
new length of a Chrome Silicon spring and a Music Wire spring. Then I cycled the
slide on the gun fifty times to compress the spring in its travel as it would
cycle in firing the gun. I then measured each spring to see how much set it
took.
There are different opinions on what spring material is best. Chrome Silicon springs are said
to have less set initially and during their life cycle and thus give greater
life.
...............................................................................................................................
DEFINED =
Chrome Silicon
(wire) An alloy of steel, stronger than Oil Tempered
wire.
...................................................................................................................................................
"MICARTA" CAN BE
USED FOR SUPERIOR GRIPS THAT ARE ULTRA THIN... THIS IS THE BEST MATERIAL FOR
NICE GRIPS THAT WILL NOT CRACK AND YOU CAN RETAIN ITS THICKNESS TO A MINIMUM. IT
COMES AVAILABLE IN COLORS LIKE BLACK, MAROON, WHITE, GREEN...MOST QUALITY KNIFE
SUPPLY HOUSES CARRY THIS MATERIAL FOR SUPERIOR KNIFE
HANDLES.
MICARTA DEFINED =
A composite of linen or paper fabric in a
thermosetting
plastic, used in electrical and decorative areas,
Micarta was
developed by
Westinghouse at least as
early as 1910 using
phenolic resins invented
by Dr.
Leo Baekeland. These
resins were used to impregnate paper and cotton fabric which were cured under
pressure and high temperature to produce laminates. In later years this
manufacturing method included the use of fiberglass fabric, other resin types
were also used. Today it is also used on knife
handles.
........................................................................................................................................
Actions, blowback
vs. locked breech
Self-loading automatic pistols can be divided into "blowback" and "locked
breech" categories according to their principle of operation. This
classification roughly divides the operation into those specifically suitable
for small-caliber versus large-caliber semi-automatic pistols.
In blowback semi-automatic pistols,
typically .380 caliber (sometimes known as 9 mm Kurz, i.e., 9mm Short) or
smaller, the barrel is fixed to the frame and the slide or bolt, in its foremost
position, is held against the barrel only by the force of the recoil spring. The slide starts
to move backwards immediately upon the gun's being fired, as there is no locking
action to hold the breechblock and slide locked with the barrel, even
temporarily. At the appropriate point in the rearward motion, extraction and
ejection of the fired brass of the cartridge are accomplished, and the used
brass is typically ejected to the right of the pistol. During the motion
rearwards, the striker, hammer, or firing pin may be re-cocked. A spring, called
a recoil spring, slows the movement of the slide as it is compressed. When the
slide reaches the rear of its travel, the recoil spring is fully compressed
(if not, the pistol may suffer a failure, called
a "jam"). The slide begins to move forward under the force of the spring,
stripping a new cartridge from the magazine and pushing the new cartridge into
the chamber. Upon the slide's return to its fully forward position, the pistol
is ready once more to be fired by squeezing the trigger. The mass of the slide
must be sufficient to hold the breech closed until the bullet exits the barrel,
and the remaining pressure drops to a safe level. A cartridge with too high a
pressure, or a slide with too little mass can cause the cartridge case to
extract too early, causing a case rupture.
In contrast, in a locked-breech design
(typically .32 caliber or larger) the barrel is temporarily locked to the slide.
The most common locked-breech type is the short-recoil design. In
a short-recoil pistol, the slide and barrel recoil together a short distance
while locked together, until the cartridge-firing chamber pressure has dropped
to a safe level. After sufficient travel to allow the bullet to exit and the
pressure to drop, the barrel then unlocks from the slide, and the barrel's
rearward motion is stopped. The ejection and loading of the new cartridge are
similar to that in a blowback pistol. After the slide seats the new round into
the chamber, the barrel begins to move forward with the slide, locking into
place, at which point the cycle is complete.
Some cartridges, such as the .44 Magnum, are so powerful
that the spring required to slow the recoiling barrel and slide becomes very
difficult to compress by hand, making it very difficult for most people to load
the pistol. Magnum cartridges are often found chambered in pistols that use a gas-operated design, more
commonly found in a rifle. One example of a
gas-operated pistol is the Desert Eagle.
Blowback
pistols are simpler to make and thus cheaper, but the blowback
mechanism can practically be used only with low-pressure cartridges of
relatively low power, typically .380 ACP caliber or smaller.
With caliber 9 x 19 mm or larger, the slide
mass starts to become excessive, and therefore few blowback handguns in such
calibers exist; the primary exceptions are simple, inexpensive guns such as
those made by Hi-Point Firearms, and
semi-automatic versions of blowback submachine guns.
In contrast, locked-breech mechanisms are used for some .32, .380 pistols;
most 9 mm pistols; and nearly all pistols of .40, .45, and larger calibers. This keeps the mass of the slide lower, and the
overall size of the pistol more manageable.
...............................................................................................
RIFLING DEFINED = An arrangement of helical grooves machined
into a barrel to
impart a spin onto a projectile passing through the bore. The spin
stabilizes the projectile,
providing better range and accuracy. Rifling may be cut into a barrel through
the use of various cutting tools or broaches,
may be
pressed into the barrel using a button tool
to displace metal, or may be formed by hammer
forging the barrel around a mandrel that contains a reverse image of the
final rifling pattern.
If
you have shallow or non existing rifling in the bore
you can not achieve any
degree of accuracy. ITS
IMPOSSIBLE.
......................................................................................................................
......................................................................................................................
KELTEC P-32
Pistol100 - BARREL
110 -
ASSEMBLY PIN
152 - SLIDE
170 -
FIRING PIN
172 - FIRING PIN SPRING
174 -
FIRING PIN SCREW
180 - EXTRACTOR182 -
EXTRACTOR SPRING
184 - EXTRACTOR PIN
190
- RECOIL SPRING-INSIDE
191 - RECOIL
SPRING-OUTSIDE
194 - RECOIL SPRING CATCH
195 -
RECOIL SPRING GUIDE
202 - FRAME
PIN(2)
205 - MAGAZINE CATCH
208 -
MAG.CATCH SPRING
210 - FRAME*
252 -
TRIGGER
253 - TRIGGER PIN
254 -
TRIGGER AXIS
256 - TRIGGER SPRING
260 -
TRIGGER BAR
270 - HAMMER BLOCK AXIS
271
- HAMMER
272 - HAMMER BLOCK
273 -
HAMMER BLOCK SPRING
274 - HAMMER SPRING
PIN
275 - HAMMER SPRING
276 - HAMMER
PIN
278 - HAMMER AXIS
279 - HAMMER
SPRING CATCH
280 -
SLIDE
STOP/EJECTOR284 - SLIDE STOP SPRING
300 -
GRIP
310 - MAGAZINE
.....................................................................................
INTRODUCTION
The P-32 is a
semi-automatic, locked breech pistol, chambered for the .32 Auto
cartridge.
The firing mechanism is double action only. The magazine has a
7 round capacity. The KEL-TEC P-32 is the lightest .32 Auto pistol ever made.
Thanks to its locking dynamics and superior ergonometry, perceived recoil and
practical accuracy are comparable to much larger guns.
The P-32 is mainly
intended for plainclothes police officers as a secondary weapon, or for
concealed carry by licensed citizens. The small grip size and light trigger pull
make the P-32 ideal for female shooters.
From the very beginning of the
design and development, computers have been used exclusively. All machined
components are also made on modern high speed computerized equipment. Equally
advanced quality control equipment and test procedures ensure a firearm with
uncompromising quality in materials and workmanship.
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS |
Calibers : |
.32 AUTO |
Weight unloaded lbs. : |
6.6 oz. |
186g |
Loaded magazine : |
2.8 oz. |
81g |
Length : |
5.1" |
129mm |
Height : |
3.5" |
89mm |
Width : |
.75" |
19mm |
Barrel Length : |
2.7" |
68mm |
Sight radius : |
3.8" |
96mm |
Muzzle Energy Max : |
200 ft lbs |
240J |
Capacity : |
7 + 1 rounds |
Trigger Pull : |
5lbs |
23N |
CONSTRUCTIONThe P-32 has six main component
groups: barrel, slide, firing mechanism, grip, and magazine. The barrel is made
of SAE 4140 ordnance steel, heat treated to 48 HRC. The slide is also 4140
steel, and contains the firing pin and the extractor. The rectangular frame is
machined from solid 7075-T6 aluminum and houses the firing mechanism.
The
trigger connects via a transfer bar to the hammer. The hammer is driven by a
novel free floating extension spring. The light weight firing pin transmits the
energy of the hammer to ignite the primer. After firing, the hammer block holds
the hammer away from the firing pin, providing a mechanical safety. The
functioning of the mechanism greatly surpasses all applicable SAAMI safety
standards.
The grip is made of the ultra high impact polymer Dupont
ST-8018. The grip also forms the magazine well and the trigger guard. The P-32
is normally supplied with a 7 round single column steel
magazine
..........................................................................................................
|
|
|
|
Volume
16 • Number 3 • March
2004
| |
|
|
Pocket Pistols: Kel-Tec’s
.380 And .32 ACPs Versus NAA
Kel-Tec’s $345 P3AT .380 ACP pistol fared even
better than the company’s $340 .32 ACP Model P32. The new Guardian 32NAA, $450, pushes the
envelope, or pocket, too far, in our view.
|
Top:
Where’s the gun? The advantage of a pocket pistol, especially a flat
gun like the Kel-Tec P32, is that it doesn’t cause a bulge in
clothing. Bottom: As you can see, the gun prints about the same as a
wallet.
| In
this test we look at semi-automatic pistols that are small enough to fit
into one’s pocket and avoid detection. One such pistol is the proven
Kel-Tec P32. Because that gun fared well in a previous test of pocket
pistols (October 2001), we wanted to see how the parent company’s slightly
larger model in .380 ACP, the Kel-Tec P3AT, fared against the .32. To
round out the field, we also tested another .32, this one a pistol from
Guardian North American Arms in a proprietary cartridge, the .32NAA.
…
|
|
Volume
11 • Number 11 • November
1999
| |
|
|
.32 Pocket Pistol
Update: Buy the Autauga Mark II
This gun is a good pocket blaster.
In the January 1999 issue of Gun Tests, we gave you an
evaluation of three .32 ACP pocket pistols made by Seecamp, Beretta, and
North American Arms. Recently Autauga Arms, Inc., entered the pocket .32
pistol market with a bang, and we think the company’s 32 Mark II is a
winner.
This Prattville, AL-based company offers a
stainless-steel, double-action-only semiautomatic with no bells and
whistles. You chamber a round and that’s it. The gun is all ready to go.
Simply pull the trigger, which requires about 8 pounds of pressure, and
the little gun fires each of its six-plus-one shots reliably, and with all
the accuracy anyone would want.
… |
..............................................................................................................................................
FROM A FORUM.......
Senior Member
Join Date: 02-19-2001
Location: The Volunteer State.
Posts: 674
|
I had a NAA .32, and "kind of" got
used to carrying it, but a piece of steel that weighs over 1 pound is
getting into the uncomfort zone for me, for pocket carry. My .32 had continual feed problems, grips would
come loose after shooting about 50 rounds, and the extractor fell
off. (Gun didn't work any worse
without it!)
I felt the .32 Guardian was
uncomfortable to shoot. That may not be a "manly" answer, but any gun
that I may have to answer to a judge and jury for using, I am going to
shoot a lot!
Maybe I am getting old, but a lifetime warranty
doesn't mean as much when it costs $25 to ship your gun, and you have to
be without it for 3 weeks at best. Why can't guns just work right out
of the box?! I currently have a Keltec P32. I love it because it is
light, accurate, and fun to shoot. It has been to the shop 3
times. My P11 had been the shop 2 times. They sent parts for my
wife's P32, worked on it myself.
Sold my
Guardian after 3 trips to the factory.
Maybe modern guns are
meant to be "carried a
lot, shot a little."
The best advice from all of this, in my
opinion, is try before you
buy.
*************
|
......................................................................................................................................
Posted by:
***********I've had 2
NAA Guardians now for several years. Recently I bought a KelTec P32 just because
I had read such good posts about them.The KelTec's
are approximately $100 cheaper than the NAA's, and don't have the same "quality"
look to them.BUT, My KelTec has been 100% reliable, and very accurate
for me. Something I cannot say about either of my NAA's. Don't get me
wrong, the Guardians are very nice pistols, but they are much heavier (it seems)
and I simply like the P32 best.
My P32 has sent my NAA Guardians to
the closet.
Just
personal opinion, other's might disagree.Best Wishes.
***************............................................................................................................................
THIS IS THE RESULT OF A POOR DESIGN
AND "NO EJECTOR"
View Full Version : Combat Handgun
Misrepresents 25NAA Guardian
***** *********
August 20th, 2004, 03:59 PM
In the Nov 2004 Combat Handguns, there is a reveiw of the
Guardian in 25NAA, a necked down .32 to .25 that leaves the gun at 1200 fps.
Cool right?
The gun is supposed to be easy to shoot and the author, Mike
Detty, includes images of his girlfriend shooting the gun and then an image
showing a malfunction, the cartridge case having trapped itself between the
slide and breechface (page 45). This is NOT a malfunction accordng to the author
and in Combat Handguns fashion, they took the stoppage and called it a good
thing.
In the caption
on page 45, "The last round from the magazine consistently trapped itself
between the slide and breech face, letting the shooter know the gun was
empty."
On pages 88-89, "Reliability with the .25NAA was 100%. We
fired about 200 rounds through the gun and had no stoppages or malfunctions.
Bottlenecks cartridges, due to their tapered design, tend to feed more reliably
than straght-walled cartrdges. One peculiarity that the Guardian shares with the
Seecamp gun is that the last round in the magazine gets trapped between the
slide face and barrel. The is not a defect in the design or a problem with the
magazine. I kind of like it because it lets me know that the gun is empty and as
it does not have a slide lock or hold-open device. The empty is easily cleared
by turning the gun to its side and pulling back on the slide to let it drop
free."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The
second description of the trapped case appears to be the most accurate of the
two. It is a case and not a round. Given the 200 rounds fired and a 6 round mag,
I would guess that Detty and his girlfriend had Contrary to
Detty and Combat Handguns, this is a malfunction, 28-33 malfunctions if
the trapping was consistent as claimed.
Contrary to
Detty, this is a flaw and a malfunction. It is not some benefit that is
there to tell the shooter the gun is empty. It is a malfunction as the empty gun
cannot be made ready by reloading. Drop the spent mag and add the new mag and
the gun still won't work because the the trapped case must be cleared. So if
reloading the gun does not make it again ready to fire, then it has
malfunctioned. Sorry Mikee, but
a trapped spent case that keeps the gun from functioning, occurring consistently
every 6 or 7 rounds (dependng how the gun is loaded) is unacceptable for
a gun with the intended purpose of being for self defense. Actually, it is
just unacceptable, either as a design problem or as QC.
*** ********
August 20th, 2004, 04:08 PM
This is a "feature," apparently, of the gun. (Like the many
unintended consequences of Windows aren't really program bugs...)
The AGI
newsletter had an article some time back about how to fix this problem in the
.32 version of the gun, and it included adding a small raised portion on the
follower.
The follower
just doesn't lift the last round high enough for it to clear the gun. (there is
no ejector that is required to solve this problem)
I'm surprised
that NAA hasn't incorporated a similar fix into their product offering, as it
apparently works beautifully.
Depending on your mind set, this "behavior"
may or may not be considered a malfunction -- but I can see where it would be
aggravating.
***** ********
August 20th, 2004, 04:11 PM
yes, it is a malfunction, but I
don't see how having the very last round stovepope is going to cost you your
life in a carry capacity.
.........................................................................................................
Mr. San**
********North
American Arms
Dear Mr. *******,
I just called North American
Arms yesterday about the problem I'm having
with my new Guardian. It
stovepipes on the last round out of nearly
every magazine. I was using
Remington 71 grain FMJ ammo. This is also
the first time I have ever
contacted a firearms manufacturer about a
problem of any sort, which says
something about important I consider
this.
I was told by one of your
technicians, Carl, that there was nothing they
could do about it, it was a
common problem due to lack of an ejector,
and Seecamps had the same problem.
(This last was a really lame
excuse).
After all I've been hearing
about the great service that NAA gives its
customers, I am quite upset at the
response I got. I bought this pistol
solely as a primary defensive weapon for
concealed carry, and that
requires absolute reliability if I'm going to trust
my life with it. If
I were using it only for target shooting or sport I
wouldn't be
concerned.
This lackadaisical attitude on the part of North
American makes me
regret my
decision to buy this pistol in the first place. In this day
and age of civil
liability, I'm surprised to find you would even allow
such a product to go
out the door with a *known* problem that could
endanger the user.
I would like to know if there
is anything North American is willing and
able to do to resolve the ejection problem? I really would
rather have
the problem fixed, but lacking that, I would like to know if I
may
return the pistol to you for a full refund?
Thank you kindly for your
attention to this matter. -- John
A*******
.............................................................................................................
Member
Offline
Member #30552 7976
posts Somewhere NY
|
Re: P32 & P3AT
Keltec guns - I might get one. (Roundnose) |
11:40 AM
3/16/2007 |
| |
I
bought the P-32 for my wife for Christmas. It has been reliable and
digests anything we put through it with no problem (WWB to Corbons). I
have an NAA Guardian in .32acp and I like her KelTec better just because
it's lighter and slimmer.
X-XXX |
............................................................................................................................................
WHOLESALE PRICE
OF NAA GUARDIANS
|
NA 25NAA
GUARDIAN SS DAO |
$298.55 |
|
|
NA 32NAA
GUARDIAN SS DAO |
$361.90 |
|
|
NA 32ACP
GUARDIAN 6+1 SHOT |
$298.55 |
|
|
NA 380ACP
GUARDIAN |
$361.90
|
...........................................................................................................................................
Teddy
http://www.actionsbyt.com/
#
posted by Teddy Jacobson : 1:42 PM