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Tuesday, March 13, 2007

COMPARISON CHART - KEL-TEC P32 VS. NAA GUARDIAN



WELCOME TO THE NO BS ZONE OF TEDDY JACOBSON - IF YOU WANT THE TRUTH YOU HAVE COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE.


COMPARE NOW BEFORE YOU BUY. DO NOT BUY

ODD CALIBERS, YOU WILL FIND LIMITED

SUPPLIERS FOR THIS AMMUNITION.
****************************************
Please send this link to interested people regarding mouse guns http://www.actionsbyt.blogspot.com/
Print this blogger for future reference. Point of information, I DO NOT KNOW THE PEOPLE OR
THE OWNER OF "KELTEC"...





ADDED COMMENTS - 3-19-07 / Monday - very bottom


LEFT CLICK ON ALL PHOTOS TO ENLARGE...
*************************************************************
........................................................................................


THIS COMMENTARY IS DEDICATED TO THE MANY "MORONS"

THAT HAVE NOT ONLY ATTACKED ME, BUT WHO KNOW SO

VERY LITTLE ABOUT MOUSE GUNS AND HAVE NO CLUE AT

ALL WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. MOST SHOULD NOT

EVEN BE ALLOWED TO OWN A HANDGUN. THIS IS THE VERY

BEGINNING OF MY REALISTIC INFORMATION ABOUT SMALL

SEMI AUTO PISTOLS, SOME ARE WORTHLESS. BE SURE TO

READ "GUN TEST" EVALUATION OF THE NAA GUARDIAN. ALL

COMMENTS MADE BY ME ARE MY PERSONAL OPINION BASED

ON MY VAST EXPERIENCE. THE PEOPLE THAT ATTACKED ME

ARE NOT EVEN QUALIFIED TO DISCUSS HANDGUNS WITH ME.

THEY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THEY ARE EVEN TALKING ABOUT.

THEY CONTINUALLY ATTACK ME WHEN I CAN NO LONGER

ANSWER THEM BACK, SO MY ANSWERS WILL BE HERE. I

HAVE BEEN SO IMPRESSED WITH THE SECOND GENERATION

KELTEC P-32 THAT I PURCHASED ONE. IT IS TO BE USED

SELDOM "BUT CARRIED OFTEN".



.........................................................................

UPDATED Sat. 3-17-07 very bottom - must see ***********************************************
DISCLAIMER: ALL OPINIONS STATED ON ALL

MY COMMENTARIES INCLUDING THIS ONE ARE

MY OWN OPINION AND OBSERVATIONS, THIS

IS ALL BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE AS A TRIGGER

SPECIALIST...
.........................................................................

PHOTOS ADDED / 3 - 15 -07 - MUST SEE BELOW / ADDED PICTURE AT LEFT TO SHOW INFERIOR "E" RING ON HAMMER PIN AND DRAWBAR SPRING THAT BREAKS, YOU CAN SEE ALL THIS IF YOU REMOVE THE LEFT GRIP PANEL OF YOUR "GUARDIAN"...

EVERYTHING STATED IS MY PERSONAL OPINION ONLY.




I HAVE DECIDED TO WRITE MY OWN COMPARISON CHART IN REFERENCE TO BUYING A KELTEC P32 PISTOL (2nd Generation) VS. A NORTH AMERICAN ARMS GUARDIAN IN 32 ACP. BOTH PISTOLS COMPARED ARE IN 32 acp CALIBER.

THESE OPINIONS AND COMMENTS ARE MY PERSONAL VIEWPOINT ONLY BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE. I DO BELIEVE THAT NAA MINI REVOLVERS ARE EXCELLENT BUT THIS CHART IS COMPARING SMALL SEMI AUTO PISTOLS ONLY. THIS CHART WILL HAVE NO REFLECTION ON NAA REVOLVERS. I CAN NOT RECOMMEND THEIR 17 CALIBER REVOLVERS. I RECOMMEND THEIR 22 LONG RIFLE AND 22 MAGNUM REVOLVERS.

ANYTHING I RATE USING A NUMBER IS THE FOLLOWING- ON A SCALE OF ONE TO TEN, ONE IS VERY POOR AND TEN IS VERY GOOD. IF YOU CAN NOT HANDLE THE TRUTH OF REALITY PLEASE LEAVE NOW.
...................................................................................
Left click on this photo to enlarge...
NAA GUARDIAN BREECH FACE & EXTRACTOR PROBLEM


...................................................................................................

Left click on this photo to enlarge...

NAA GUARDIAN SHALLOW RIFLING & VERY POOR CROWN


...................................................................................................
Left click on this photo to enlarge


NAA GUARDIAN POOR FACTORY STIPPLING AFTER BEAD BLASTING





.................................................................................................

TYPE OF ACTION

KELTEC - SEMI AUTO

GUARDIAN - SEMI AUTO

.................................................................................

FRAME MATERIAL - (Corrected 3-14-07)

KELTEC - FRAME IS MADE OUT OF HARD ANODIZED 7071 ALUMINUM - PARTS ARE MOUNTED INSIDE FRAME.

GUARDIAN - STAINLESS STEEL

.................................................................................

TYPE OF ACTION

KELTEC - FIRES FROM A LOCKED BREECH

GUARDIAN - DIRECT BLOW BACK DESIGN

.................................................................................

SPRINGS

KELTEC - CHROME SILICON

GUARDIAN - MUSIC WIRE

.................................................................................

ESTIMATED TRIGGER PULL AS NEW

KELTEC - MY SCALE READS 5 LBS. DOUBLE ACTION ONLY

GUARDIAN - MY SCALE READS BETWEEN 11 TO 12 LBS. DOUBLE ACTION ONLY

.................................................................................

SIGHTS

KELTEC - POOR

GUARDIAN - POOR

I THINK THAT LARRY SEECAMP IS CORRECT WITH HIS 32 ACP PISTOL AND HE DOES NOT HAVE ANY SIGHTS.

................................................................................

FEED RAMP

KELTEC - VERY GOOD FEED RAMP AND HAS PROPER THROATING.

GUARDIAN - POOR - note of caution that if you take too much metal off this
feed ramp you will put a hole in it because the recoil
spring tunnel is directly below the feed ramp.

................................................................................

EJECTOR

KELTEC - VERY GOOD EJECTOR

GUARDIAN - THERE IS NO EJECTOR

...............................................................................

EXTRACTOR

KELTEC - VERY GOOD EXTRACTOR

GUARDIAN - WORTHLESS EXTRACTOR - I RATE THIS # 1

..............................................................................

GUIDE ROD

KELTEC - FULL LENGTH POLYMER GUIDE ROD

GUARDIAN - VERY SHORT GUIDE ROD ABOUT 1 INCH LONG - METAL

..............................................................................

RECOIL SPRING

KELTEC - DUAL SPRINGS - CHROME SILICON

GUARDIAN - DUAL SPRINGS - MUSIC WIRE

.............................................................................

FIRING PIN

KELTEC - WELL MADE FIRING PIN

GUARDIAN - SOFT FIRING PIN - MUSHROOMS AT REAR

............................................................................

"E" RINGS

KELTEC - NONE THAT I COULD SEE UPON INSPECTION

GUARDIAN - INFERIOR "E" RING ON HAMMER PIN - SUGGESTED THE USE OF
SUPERIOR "
SNAP RINGS" AND NAA REFUSED. I EVEN SENT THEM
WEBSITES OF WHERE TO BUY THEM.

...........................................................................

BREECH FACE

KELTEC - VERY WELL CUT

GUARDIAN - VERY POOR DESIGN WITH RADIUS OPPOSITE SIDE OF
EXTRACTOR.

...........................................................................

FIELD STRIPPING

KELTEC - HARD TO GET SLIDE STOP PIN OUT - VERY SECURE

GUARDIAN - HAS PUSH BUTTON LEVER THAT OFTEN HAS BROKEN. EASY TO
FIELD STRIP.

...........................................................................

BARREL

KELTEC - REMOVABLE BARREL

GUARDIAN - BARREL AND FRAME ARE ONE PIECE CASTING

...........................................................................

RIFLING OF BARREL

KELTEC - HAS DECENT RIFLING I RATE AT #7

GUARDIAN - POOR SHALLOW RIFLING. I RATE AT # 2

..........................................................................

CROWN AT MUZZLE

KELTEC - DECENT CROWN FOR A GUN OF THIS TYPE

GUARDIAN - POOR AT BEST

.........................................................................

COMPANY RELIABILITY

KELTEC - GOOD

GUARDIAN - GOOD

.........................................................................

GRIPS (made correction 3-14-07)

KELTEC - GRIPS ARE POLYMER

GUARDIAN - CHEAP PLASTIC GRIPS, REFUSED TO USE MICARTA AT MY
SUGGESTION. I EVEN SENT THEM WEBSITES OF WHERE TO BUY
THIS VERY THIN MICARTA.

.........................................................................

MATERIAL OF SLIDE

KELTEC - MOST ARE BLUED STEEL, OTHER FINISHES ARE AVAILABLE

GUARDIAN - STAINLESS STEEL

.........................................................................

APPROX. WHOLESALE PRICE

KELTEC - $200.00

GUARDIAN - $300.00

........................................................................

AVAILABILITY

KELTEC - VERY POPULAR AND SELLING VERY FAST - VERY HARD TO FIND.

GUARDIAN - NOT IN CURRENT PRODUCTION - HAD TO CHANGE CASTING
VENDORS - SHOULD BE BACK INTO PRODUCTION SOON.

........................................................................

CAPACITY - I AM GOING BY MEMORY

KELTEC - 7 PLUS 1

GUARDIAN - 6 PLUS 1

........................................................................

ACCURACY

KELTEC - I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH THIS AS I CONSIDER All SMALL
SEMI AUTOS THIS SIZE TO BE USED FOR UNDER 5 FEET MAX.

GUARDIAN - I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH THIS FACTOR AS I CONSIDER
THIS PISTOL GOOD UP TO 5 FEET.

.......................................................................

TRIGGER BAR SPRING

KELTEC - I DO NOT KNOW

GUARDIAN - I HAVE SEEN THE DRAWBAR PLUNGER SPRING BREAK OFTEN

......................................................................

LIFE OF PISTOL

KELTEC - 6000 ROUNDS

GUARDIAN - I DO NOT KNOW

TOMCAT - 3000 ROUNDS

......................................................................


TO BE CONTINUED. Continued 3-14-07

I have always thought that NAA was a very reliable factory and still do but they have not corrected obvious problems that they knew about for years. I have had many discussions with them about their guardian but they never listened to pure common sense, they always followed their marketing man. Now they are paying the price as they are not only out of production but their flaws are beyond my fixing them. Sure I can get a better trigger pull on every Guardian I take in but there is no way I can prevent the Drawbar Spring from breaking because they would not spend a couple of dollars per each unit and buy superior chrome silicon springs. There are no after market parts for this pistol and I remain at the mercy of a finished product.

These fools that take these mouse guns to a range and expect good groups at 30 feet are out of their mind and many people in america should not even own a gun, their expectations of any mouse gun is insane because with barely two inches of shallow rifling and a very poor crown there is no way you can get accuracy. And to further complicate matters some of these people shoot hundreds of cheap rounds per week in a gun that is not meant for this type of torture.

ANY SEMI AUTO PISTOL IS AT THE MERCY OF QUALITY AMMUNITION AND IF YOU LIMP WRIST THE GUN IT WILL JAM.

I have never taken in a KELTEC pistol to work on as I can not improve it enough to justify taking a persons money, I am too honest for that.

I have taken in countless "GUARDIANS" of all calibers and I am able to reduce an 11 lb. double action trigger down to about 8 lbs without having created misfires. I have owned more mouse guns in my lifetime than most people but they are for a last ditch survival weapon, "IT IS WHAT IT IS"... These people that have bought mouse guns can not except the fact that they are to be carried and seldom fired.

Another parallel is a person that buys an aluminum frame 1911 pistol of commander size, this type of pistol is ideal to carry for its light weight, but if you shoot it alot with high performance ammunition it will fall apart. THE VERY BEST SMALL MINI HANDGUNS ARE STILL THE GLOCKS. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT I AM SAYING - "TOUGH" - BECAUSE ITS TRUE.

OF COURSE I WOULD LIKE TO SEE NAA MAKE A SUPERIOR WEAPON, BUT IN MY MIND AND IN MY OPINION ITS DOUBTFUL BECAUSE OF THE LEADERSHIP THAT ARE MAKING THESE DECISIONS WITH MARGIN OF PROFIT AS A FIRST PRIORITY. THEY HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THESE FLAWS FOR YEARS. THE OWNER OF NAA LIVES IN PA. AND THE FACTORY IS IN UTAH. HE RELIES ON PEOPLE THAT JUST DO NOT GET IT IN MY OPINION. THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE NAA REVOLVER DEPT.

PEOPLE THAT MAKE A DECENT LIVING IN A SMALL TOWN IN UTAH MUST PROTECT THEIR SALARY AND I JUST FEEL VERY BAD FOR THE AVERAGE EMPLOYEE THAT REALLY KNOWS BETTER BUT ITS NOT HIS OR HER FAULT THEY JUST TAKE ORDERS FROM PEOPLE WITH THEIR OWN AGENDA. IN MY OPINION ITS JUST THAT SIMPLE.

FOR EXAMPLE IF YOU HAVE A TEN DOLLAR AN HOUR EMPLOYEE THAT IS TOLD TO STIPPLE A FRONT STRAP AND HAS NO REAL EXPERIENCE AND DOES THIS STIPPLING AND SOME FLUNKIE SUPERVISER TELLS HIM TO CUT FILES LINES AROUND THE STIPPLING WHICH ARE CROOKED AND THEN BEAD BLAST THE FRAME, NOT ONLY IS IT AN INFERIOR JOB BUT THE BEAD BLASTING JUST RUINS THE VERY STIPPLING YOU WANTED FOR A SECURE GRIP. I DO NOT BLAME THE INNOCENT BEGINNER HOURLY EMPLOYEE BECAUSE I BLAME THE SUPERVISOR WHO IS JUST WORRYING ABOUT HIS SIZEABLE WEEKLY CHECK.

I COULD GO ON AND ON AND ON BUT I HAVE SAID ENOUGH. EVERYTHING I HAVE WRITTEN AND STATED IS MY OPINION ONLY BASED ON MY VAST EXPERIENCE.

...................................................

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COST OF "E" RINGS

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SIZE = 0.375 // 100 pieces // $41.19

.......................................................
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SIZE =0.375 // 100 pieces // $50.06

$ 50.06





....................................................................................

CHROME SILICON SPRINGS

WHAT IS YOUR LIFE WORTH ??

Differences In Spring Rate Set Between Different Types of Spring Materials
By Mike Watkins

The Gang here at Brownells were recently discussing spring set on new magazines springs and 1911 Colt type pistols. I decided to do a comparison test on AR-15 20 round magazines springs and 1911 recoil springs.

The test was done to compare Chrome Silicon springs, Stainless Steel springs, and Music Wire springs. This would be a Gunsmith test only, since we don’t have a full laboratory with precision testing equipment. The test was to measure the new length of each magazine spring, and then load up the mag with dummy rounds to full capacity. The final step was to check the length of the springs after three days and ten days to see how much shorter the springs were, or how much set the springs took.

On the recoil springs for the 1911, I measured the new length of a Chrome Silicon spring and a Music Wire spring. Then I cycled the slide on the gun fifty times to compress the spring in its travel as it would cycle in firing the gun. I then measured each spring to see how much set it took.

There are different opinions on what spring material is best. Chrome Silicon springs are said to have less set initially and during their life cycle and thus give greater life.

...............................................................................................................................

DEFINED =
Chrome Silicon (wire) An alloy of steel, stronger than Oil Tempered wire.

...................................................................................................................................................
"MICARTA" CAN BE USED FOR SUPERIOR GRIPS THAT ARE ULTRA THIN... THIS IS THE BEST MATERIAL FOR NICE GRIPS THAT WILL NOT CRACK AND YOU CAN RETAIN ITS THICKNESS TO A MINIMUM. IT COMES AVAILABLE IN COLORS LIKE BLACK, MAROON, WHITE, GREEN...MOST QUALITY KNIFE SUPPLY HOUSES CARRY THIS MATERIAL FOR SUPERIOR KNIFE HANDLES.

MICARTA DEFINED = A composite of linen or paper fabric in a thermosetting plastic, used in electrical and decorative areas, Micarta was developed by Westinghouse at least as early as 1910 using phenolic resins invented by Dr. Leo Baekeland. These resins were used to impregnate paper and cotton fabric which were cured under pressure and high temperature to produce laminates. In later years this manufacturing method included the use of fiberglass fabric, other resin types were also used. Today it is also used on knife handles.

........................................................................................................................................

Actions, blowback vs. locked breech

Self-loading automatic pistols can be divided into "blowback" and "locked breech" categories according to their principle of operation. This classification roughly divides the operation into those specifically suitable for small-caliber versus large-caliber semi-automatic pistols.

In blowback semi-automatic pistols, typically .380 caliber (sometimes known as 9 mm Kurz, i.e., 9mm Short) or smaller, the barrel is fixed to the frame and the slide or bolt, in its foremost position, is held against the barrel only by the force of the recoil spring. The slide starts to move backwards immediately upon the gun's being fired, as there is no locking action to hold the breechblock and slide locked with the barrel, even temporarily. At the appropriate point in the rearward motion, extraction and ejection of the fired brass of the cartridge are accomplished, and the used brass is typically ejected to the right of the pistol. During the motion rearwards, the striker, hammer, or firing pin may be re-cocked. A spring, called a recoil spring, slows the movement of the slide as it is compressed. When the slide reaches the rear of its travel, the recoil spring is fully compressed (if not, the pistol may suffer a failure, called a "jam"). The slide begins to move forward under the force of the spring, stripping a new cartridge from the magazine and pushing the new cartridge into the chamber. Upon the slide's return to its fully forward position, the pistol is ready once more to be fired by squeezing the trigger. The mass of the slide must be sufficient to hold the breech closed until the bullet exits the barrel, and the remaining pressure drops to a safe level. A cartridge with too high a pressure, or a slide with too little mass can cause the cartridge case to extract too early, causing a case rupture.

In contrast, in a locked-breech design (typically .32 caliber or larger) the barrel is temporarily locked to the slide. The most common locked-breech type is the short-recoil design. In a short-recoil pistol, the slide and barrel recoil together a short distance while locked together, until the cartridge-firing chamber pressure has dropped to a safe level. After sufficient travel to allow the bullet to exit and the pressure to drop, the barrel then unlocks from the slide, and the barrel's rearward motion is stopped. The ejection and loading of the new cartridge are similar to that in a blowback pistol. After the slide seats the new round into the chamber, the barrel begins to move forward with the slide, locking into place, at which point the cycle is complete.

Some cartridges, such as the .44 Magnum, are so powerful that the spring required to slow the recoiling barrel and slide becomes very difficult to compress by hand, making it very difficult for most people to load the pistol. Magnum cartridges are often found chambered in pistols that use a gas-operated design, more commonly found in a rifle. One example of a gas-operated pistol is the Desert Eagle.

Blowback pistols are simpler to make and thus cheaper, but the blowback mechanism can practically be used only with low-pressure cartridges of relatively low power, typically .380 ACP caliber or smaller. With caliber 9 x 19 mm or larger, the slide mass starts to become excessive, and therefore few blowback handguns in such calibers exist; the primary exceptions are simple, inexpensive guns such as those made by Hi-Point Firearms, and semi-automatic versions of blowback submachine guns.

In contrast, locked-breech mechanisms are used for some .32, .380 pistols; most 9 mm pistols; and nearly all pistols of .40, .45, and larger calibers. This keeps the mass of the slide lower, and the overall size of the pistol more manageable.

...............................................................................................

RIFLING DEFINED = An arrangement of helical grooves machined into a barrel to impart a spin onto a projectile passing through the bore. The spin stabilizes the projectile, providing better range and accuracy. Rifling may be cut into a barrel through the use of various cutting tools or broaches, may be pressed into the barrel using a button tool to displace metal, or may be formed by hammer forging the barrel around a mandrel that contains a reverse image of the final rifling pattern. If you have shallow or non existing rifling in the bore
you can not achieve any degree of accuracy. ITS

IMPOSSIBLE.

......................................................................................................................
......................................................................................................................

KELTEC P-32 Pistol


100 - BARREL
110 - ASSEMBLY PIN
152 - SLIDE
170 - FIRING PIN
172 - FIRING PIN SPRING
174 - FIRING PIN SCREW
180 - EXTRACTOR
182 - EXTRACTOR SPRING
184 - EXTRACTOR PIN
190 - RECOIL SPRING-INSIDE
191 - RECOIL SPRING-OUTSIDE
194 - RECOIL SPRING CATCH
195 - RECOIL SPRING GUIDE
202 - FRAME PIN(2)
205 - MAGAZINE CATCH
208 - MAG.CATCH SPRING
210 - FRAME*
252 - TRIGGER
253 - TRIGGER PIN
254 - TRIGGER AXIS
256 - TRIGGER SPRING
260 - TRIGGER BAR
270 - HAMMER BLOCK AXIS
271 - HAMMER
272 - HAMMER BLOCK
273 - HAMMER BLOCK SPRING
274 - HAMMER SPRING PIN
275 - HAMMER SPRING
276 - HAMMER PIN
278 - HAMMER AXIS
279 - HAMMER SPRING CATCH
280 - SLIDE STOP/EJECTOR
284 - SLIDE STOP SPRING
300 - GRIP
310 - MAGAZINE

.....................................................................................



INTRODUCTION

The P-32 is a semi-automatic, locked breech pistol, chambered for the .32 Auto cartridge.

The firing mechanism is double action only. The magazine has a 7 round capacity. The KEL-TEC P-32 is the lightest .32 Auto pistol ever made. Thanks to its locking dynamics and superior ergonometry, perceived recoil and practical accuracy are comparable to much larger guns.

The P-32 is mainly intended for plainclothes police officers as a secondary weapon, or for concealed carry by licensed citizens. The small grip size and light trigger pull make the P-32 ideal for female shooters.

From the very beginning of the design and development, computers have been used exclusively. All machined components are also made on modern high speed computerized equipment. Equally advanced quality control equipment and test procedures ensure a firearm with uncompromising quality in materials and workmanship.


TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS
Calibers : .32 AUTO
Weight unloaded lbs. : 6.6 oz. 186g
Loaded magazine : 2.8 oz. 81g
Length : 5.1" 129mm
Height : 3.5" 89mm
Width : .75" 19mm
Barrel Length : 2.7" 68mm
Sight radius : 3.8" 96mm
Muzzle Energy Max : 200 ft lbs 240J
Capacity : 7 + 1 rounds
Trigger Pull : 5lbs 23N


CONSTRUCTION

The P-32 has six main component groups: barrel, slide, firing mechanism, grip, and magazine. The barrel is made of SAE 4140 ordnance steel, heat treated to 48 HRC. The slide is also 4140 steel, and contains the firing pin and the extractor. The rectangular frame is machined from solid 7075-T6 aluminum and houses the firing mechanism.

The trigger connects via a transfer bar to the hammer. The hammer is driven by a novel free floating extension spring. The light weight firing pin transmits the energy of the hammer to ignite the primer. After firing, the hammer block holds the hammer away from the firing pin, providing a mechanical safety. The functioning of the mechanism greatly surpasses all applicable SAAMI safety standards.

The grip is made of the ultra high impact polymer Dupont ST-8018. The grip also forms the magazine well and the trigger guard. The P-32 is normally supplied with a 7 round single column steel magazine


..........................................................................................................



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Pocket Pistols: Kel-Tec’s .380 And .32 ACPs Versus NAA

Kel-Tec’s $345 P3AT .380 ACP pistol fared even better than the company’s $340 .32 ACP Model P32. The new Guardian 32NAA, $450, pushes the envelope, or pocket, too far, in our view.


Top: Where’s the gun? The advantage of a pocket pistol, especially a flat gun like the Kel-Tec P32, is that it doesn’t cause a bulge in clothing. Bottom: As you can see, the gun prints about the same as a wallet.
In this test we look at semi-automatic pistols that are small enough to fit into one’s pocket and avoid detection. One such pistol is the proven Kel-Tec P32. Because that gun fared well in a previous test of pocket pistols (October 2001), we wanted to see how the parent company’s slightly larger model in .380 ACP, the Kel-Tec P3AT, fared against the .32. To round out the field, we also tested another .32, this one a pistol from Guardian North American Arms in a proprietary cartridge, the .32NAA. …



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.32 Pocket Pistol Update:
Buy the Autauga Mark II

This gun is a good pocket blaster.

In the January 1999 issue of Gun Tests, we gave you an evaluation of three .32 ACP pocket pistols made by Seecamp, Beretta, and North American Arms. Recently Autauga Arms, Inc., entered the pocket .32 pistol market with a bang, and we think the company’s 32 Mark II is a winner.

This Prattville, AL-based company offers a stainless-steel, double-action-only semiautomatic with no bells and whistles. You chamber a round and that’s it. The gun is all ready to go. Simply pull the trigger, which requires about 8 pounds of pressure, and the little gun fires each of its six-plus-one shots reliably, and with all the accuracy anyone would want. …

..............................................................................................................................................

FROM A FORUM.......

Senior Member

Join Date: 02-19-2001
Location: The Volunteer State.
Posts: 674



I had a NAA .32, and "kind of" got used to carrying it, but a piece of steel that weighs over 1 pound is getting into the uncomfort zone for me, for pocket carry.
My .32 had continual feed problems, grips would come loose after shooting about 50 rounds, and the extractor fell off.
(Gun didn't work any worse without it!)


I felt the .32 Guardian was uncomfortable to shoot.
That may not be a "manly" answer, but any gun that I may have to answer to a judge and jury for using, I am going to shoot a lot!

Maybe I am getting old, but a lifetime warranty doesn't mean as much when it costs $25 to ship your gun, and you have to be without it for 3 weeks at best.
Why can't guns just work right out of the box?!
I currently have a Keltec P32. I love it because it is light, accurate, and fun to shoot.
It has been to the shop 3 times.
My P11 had been the shop 2 times.
They sent parts for my wife's P32, worked on it myself.

Sold my Guardian after 3 trips to the factory.

Maybe modern guns are meant to be "carried a lot, shot a little."

The best advice from all of this, in my opinion, is try before you buy.

*************

......................................................................................................................................


Posted by: ***********

I've had 2 NAA Guardians now for several years. Recently I bought a KelTec P32 just because I had read such good posts about them.

The KelTec's are approximately $100 cheaper than the NAA's, and don't have the same "quality" look to them.

BUT, My KelTec has been 100% reliable, and very accurate for me. Something I cannot say about either of my NAA's. Don't get me wrong, the Guardians are very nice pistols, but they are much heavier (it seems) and I simply like the P32 best.


My P32 has sent my NAA Guardians to the closet.


Just personal opinion, other's might disagree.

Best Wishes.

***************
............................................................................................................................



THIS IS THE RESULT OF A POOR DESIGN AND "NO EJECTOR"


View Full Version : Combat Handgun Misrepresents 25NAA Guardian


***** *********
August 20th, 2004, 03:59 PM
In the Nov 2004 Combat Handguns, there is a reveiw of the Guardian in 25NAA, a necked down .32 to .25 that leaves the gun at 1200 fps. Cool right?

The gun is supposed to be easy to shoot and the author, Mike Detty, includes images of his girlfriend shooting the gun and then an image showing a malfunction, the cartridge case having trapped itself between the slide and breechface (page 45). This is NOT a malfunction accordng to the author and in Combat Handguns fashion, they took the stoppage and called it a good thing.

In the caption on page 45, "The last round from the magazine consistently trapped itself between the slide and breech face, letting the shooter know the gun was empty."

On pages 88-89, "Reliability with the .25NAA was 100%. We fired about 200 rounds through the gun and had no stoppages or malfunctions. Bottlenecks cartridges, due to their tapered design, tend to feed more reliably than straght-walled cartrdges. One peculiarity that the Guardian shares with the Seecamp gun is that the last round in the magazine gets trapped between the slide face and barrel. The is not a defect in the design or a problem with the magazine. I kind of like it because it lets me know that the gun is empty and as it does not have a slide lock or hold-open device. The empty is easily cleared by turning the gun to its side and pulling back on the slide to let it drop free."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The second description of the trapped case appears to be the most accurate of the two. It is a case and not a round. Given the 200 rounds fired and a 6 round mag, I would guess that Detty and his girlfriend had Contrary to Detty and Combat Handguns, this is a malfunction, 28-33 malfunctions if the trapping was consistent as claimed.

Contrary to Detty, this is a flaw and a malfunction.
It is not some benefit that is there to tell the shooter the gun is empty. It is a malfunction as the empty gun cannot be made ready by reloading. Drop the spent mag and add the new mag and the gun still won't work because the the trapped case must be cleared. So if reloading the gun does not make it again ready to fire, then it has malfunctioned. Sorry Mikee, but a trapped spent case that keeps the gun from functioning, occurring consistently every 6 or 7 rounds (dependng how the gun is loaded) is unacceptable for a gun with the intended purpose of being for self defense. Actually, it is just unacceptable, either as a design problem or as QC.

*** ********
August 20th, 2004, 04:08 PM
This is a "feature," apparently, of the gun. (Like the many unintended consequences of Windows aren't really program bugs...)

The AGI newsletter had an article some time back about how to fix this problem in the .32 version of the gun, and it included adding a small raised portion on the follower.

The follower just doesn't lift the last round high enough for it to clear the gun. (there is no ejector that is required to solve this problem)

I'm surprised that NAA hasn't incorporated a similar fix into their product offering, as it apparently works beautifully.

Depending on your mind set, this "behavior" may or may not be considered a malfunction -- but I can see where it would be aggravating.

***** ********
August 20th, 2004, 04:11 PM
yes, it is a malfunction, but I don't see how having the very last round stovepope is going to cost you your life in a carry capacity.

.........................................................................................................


Mr. San** ********
North American Arms

Dear Mr. *******,

I just called North American Arms yesterday about the problem I'm having
with my new Guardian. It stovepipes on the last round out of nearly
every magazine. I was using Remington 71 grain FMJ ammo. This is also
the first time I have ever contacted a firearms manufacturer about a
problem of any sort, which says something about important I consider
this.

I was told by one of your technicians, Carl, that there was nothing they
could do about it, it was a common problem due to lack of an ejector,
and Seecamps had the same problem. (This last was a really lame
excuse).

After all I've been hearing about the great service that NAA gives its
customers, I am quite upset at the response I got. I bought this pistol
solely as a primary defensive weapon for concealed carry, and that
requires absolute reliability if I'm going to trust my life with it. If
I were using it only for target shooting or sport I wouldn't be
concerned.

This lackadaisical attitude on the part of North American makes me
regret my decision to buy this pistol in the first place.
In this day
and age of civil liability, I'm surprised to find you would even allow
such a product to go out the door with a *known* problem that could
endanger the user.

I would like to know if there is anything North American is willing and
able to do to resolve the ejection problem? I really would rather have
the problem fixed, but lacking that, I would like to know if I may
return the pistol to you for a full refund?

Thank you kindly for your attention to this matter.
--
John A*******

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Member



Offline

Member #30552
7976 posts
Somewhere NY

Re: P32 & P3AT Keltec guns - I might get one. (Roundnose)

I bought the P-32 for my wife for Christmas. It has been reliable and digests anything we put through it with no problem (WWB to Corbons). I have an NAA Guardian in .32acp and I like her KelTec better just because it's lighter and slimmer.




X-XXX

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WHOLESALE PRICE OF NAA GUARDIANS



NA 25NAA GUARDIAN SS DAO $298.55

NA 32NAA GUARDIAN SS DAO $361.90

NA 32ACP GUARDIAN 6+1 SHOT $298.55

NA 380ACP GUARDIAN $361.90
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Teddy
http://www.actionsbyt.com/






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